Tuesday, January 30, 2007

be careful when you are on #paludis

In my opinion, a good community should treat new comers well.
But some people think otherwise.
http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/20061002-newsletter.xml#doc_chap3

(zhllg) i think many people like the idea installation could resume automatically when failure occur, is it possible with paludis?
(mlangc) zhllg: http://www.paludis.org/faq.html#skipfirst
 mlangc maskd masterdriverz maxauthority midnite__ mzli
 mlangc maskd masterdriverz maxauthority midnite__ mzli
(zhllg) mlangc, i've seen that actually, just wonder why, is it difficult to implement technically?
(mlangc) i don't think so; as far as i know it is not implemented by __design__ - but you should better ask someone that actually works on paludis; i'm a simple user myself
(rbrown`) zhllg: er no. Too unreliable, too flaky and far too widely abused;
(zlin) zhllg: wouldn't it be much better to fix the packages that cause it to fail in the first place...
(zhllg) zlin, yeah, from a developer's perspective
* dleverton is now known as dleverton|class
(zhllg) but i remember there is a saying, "provide the mechanism, not the policy"
(edeca) To be fair, I often used skipfirst to ignore ebuilds with fetch restriction that I knew I didn't need
* chutzpah (n= chutz@gentoo/developer/chutzpah) has joined #paludis
(mlangc) zhllg: i guess this also makes some sense from a users perspective - you can do "--skip-first" by manipulating the resume command - but you have to be explicit and thus think about it; often it is better to just try another version of the package that fails inmo
 mlangc maskd masterdriverz maxauthority midnite__ mzli
(zhllg) mlangc, actually i use this script to update the system: "sudo emerge -tauvDN world || until sudo emerge --resume --skipfirst; do sudo emerge --resume --skipfirst; done
* jacekowski has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
(rbrown`) then you're an idiot
(mlangc) i guess that it what the paludis devs are meaning by 'far too widely abused' ;-)
* jacekowski (n= jacekows@aaot198.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #paludis
(zhllg) rbrown`, watch your tongue, please
(zlin) or just clueless..
 mlangc maskd masterdriverz maxauthority midnite__ mzli
 mlangc maskd masterdriverz maxauthority midnite__ mzli
(zhllg) rbrown`, zlin, mlangc how do you update your system?
(zhllg) may i ask?
(rbrown`) zhllg: or what? there's no policy against calling an idiot an idiot in this channel
(rbrown`) zhllg: paludis -i world
(spb) there's no real policy against calling anyone anything, really
(rbrown`) spb: I wanted to be clear that I was only calling him names that were appropriate
(zlin) zhllg: we tend to try to fix problems when we hit them rather than ignoring them without even noticing..
(zhllg) zlin, not everyone has the ability to fix problems, let's face this
(mlangc) zhllg: at least you should be aware of them so that another person might fix them for you
 mlangc maskd masterdriverz maxauthority midnite__ mzli
(mlangc) if your "update" script leaves your system unusable you would not even have a clue what went wrong ....
(zlin) zhllg: and actually the things you can do with emerge --skipfirst are far more limited than what you can do with the resume command from paludis.
(zhllg) mlangc, i can find which packages are broken
* beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) has joined #paludis
(zhllg) just run emerge -tavuDN world again immediately after running that script
(zlin) uhh..
(ciaranm) idiot is too mild a term for this one
(zhllg) idiot is not an appropriate term to call users
(rbrown`) but was that evident when I used it?
(zhllg) or potential users
(ciaranm) 'fucking retard'?
(zhllg) maybe for you ciaranm
(mlangc) well, i think there's no need to be unfriendly; if he breaks his system that is entirely his problem ...
(zhllg) mlangc, maybe, but my system runs well for nearly 3 years

5 Comments:

Anonymous Brian said...

Yes, it's a pity that some basic level of politeness / respectfulness / social skill does not come along with being knowledgeable about computers. There's no reason to bother dealing with such people.

1/31/2007 6:43 AM  
Blogger Zhang Le said...

Thank you, brain!

1/31/2007 11:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't bother, some people never learn - I remember that ciaran from forums.gentoo.org , very unfriendly sort of teenage , maybe thrown away from gentoo dev team because of that :)

2/01/2007 6:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is very easy to mask some version of a package and have a system (world), that compiles without the intervetion and without --skipfirst. And of course without breaking your system. Doing it (masking, unmasking ...) regularly is realy less work than repairing the --skipfirst problems (broken world, system, ...).

Being so careless about your system, they just used a vocabulary word correctly.

In fact, if you would listen to them, they might spare you sleeples nights, because of recompiling world again and again... You might have to thank them.

2/02/2007 9:35 AM  
Blogger Zhang Le said...

How can you magically know which package to mask before hand? I am afraid this requires intervention. How do conclude this is careless? If a dependency fails, most likely its dependent will fail as well. If a package which i want to emerge fails, then just skip it. Is there any problem? You think if A think B is wrong, then it is OK for A to call B idiot, or even fucking bastard? Then now I think you are wrong, do you mind if...? Last but not least, I never recompling world again and again and my system is working well. Even if I recompile world, I will sleep as usual. Thanks!

2/08/2007 3:37 PM  

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